Please report any errors to me. The two-piece assembly can also be The press scolded for its frequent use of "Roman characters" under "Jewish influence" and German migrs urged to use only "German script". The Germans used the letter "J" instead of "I" quite often to avoid confusion with the number "1." The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in Luger wooden box cleaning kit The exact date or time frame of the second conversion is uncertain, which could have been in the late 1920s or early 1930s. Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated Gustav Reinhardt Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst K police inspection stamp and marked L. Sch.137. P.08 police Luger pistol, serial number 9140e is stamped on the back as well. back-side attached single, horizontal leather stock block strip and removing the center block. ad[8]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/JRBMbanner.jpg'; The lack of a holster maker on the rear, between the belt loops is not unusual considering its WW1 Imperial army origins, however, there is also no evidence of a maker mark under the cover flap. The conclusion being is that the modification, if indeed done for the reason described, was an ill-conceived, poorly thought out exercise that didnt work out, and that the special Police cleaning rod with added brass stopper, as stated by some Luger authors, was never intended to be carried in a cut-back Artillery to Police holster, with the subject holster being the sole published example so modified. Over all good condition. In Berlin, the German Police screwed the barrels out and replaced them with 9 mm barrels. Here are the rare Lugers (PHOTOS). $500. Sticky: Book Review History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings. It is speculated that the shift was also motivated by the need to communicate with occupied territories during WW2 and the use of Fraktur would inhibit that communication. indicated by the 220mm, short length pull-through chain. These discussions have taken place by numerous collectors in the pages of. by dk598 16 Aug 2016, 04:12. Simson proofs. The other marking is an inspection stamp, consisting of a crown over a 'fraktur,' or letter. Click here for English translation. 2 Policing Germany, including Police Unit Marks Chapt. The following tables list the base forms for police unit marks found in Brief explanation of the Danish HIPO-organization (as the name is mentioned again and again): HIPO was a Danish corps, established 1944 by the German Gestapo, recruited among Danish traitors after, most of the Danish policemen on September 19th 1944 were arrested and sent to concentration camps in Germany. a 1920s chamber stamped commercial P.08 Luger, The third is a late 1920s sear bar and magazine safety, German acceptance stamped E/WaA66 Police Luger s/n 4559t. Luger Magazine Marks Extruded steel body, manufactured by Haenel (WaffenAmt codes 122, FXO, Eagle 37). A 1925 dated report of the IMKK notes noncompliance and The 2008 discussions were all over the map with collectors stating that the WOL Costanzo comments were incorrect, disputing the WaAJL16 stamp as incorrectly interpreted by Costanzo as being WaAJt16. The bases for these identifications are as follows: a. The third is a late 1920s sear bar and magazine safety, German acceptance stamped E/WaA66 Police Luger s/n 4559t with the forward gripstrap marked as unit marked weapon number L.W.58. 2866 is pictured in two views, one with the Xs removed and the other enhanced. 9mm Luger Caliber. Opinion 3: I strongly believe what you have is a Heeres-Zeugamt produced holster. Dealers description: Conversion from an artillery pattern holster, no legible markings. It has all matching parts to include the side plate and take down lever which were stamped again with the same 2 digits as before but on the front of each part like would would see on a military marked pistol. However, no Police bayonets, in general, were issue items, so they would be more "service" items, rather than dress. 1920. subcommissions and left Germany during January 1927. Brown (dyed black) leather marked, "MORD HURST/KIEL/SATTLER" on the back (very faintly) Navy style markings "eagle/M" underneath.. $1,000. The Fraktur font originated sometime in the 16th century and was then widely used on most documents and written works. 1930s and beyond with a Weimar era made, seven ring wooden barrel handle cleaning rod, as mentioned, specifically made for use with police Lugers, 413 or Landjgerei Gumbinnen; view 1 and view 2. View First Unread . Weight . links[9]='http://www.cashicollection.com'; On many Police Bayonets there are not only stamped numbers, but there were also letters proceeding the numbers that identified the city from where the bayonet was used during the Weimar period. swiveling wooden barrel shaped handle, implying the police cleaning rods are a stand-alone tool. The added cover flap leather keeper strip is correctly attached with single line stitching. It is not Serial number stamped on the back corner 9436. that the item was issued to. Prussian Eagle adorned clam shell device under the grip. All Rights Reserved, Lugers! 1918 Dingeldey & Werres-Berlin cut-back artillery to police holster, Luger holstered s/n 5008. Pictured is a brown leather 1935 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with an eagle over circled K police inspection stamp and P08 pistol issue number or serial number 7307; view 1, The conclusion being that there are a variety of styles/shapes and size of brass studs used by the many different WW1 leather makers of LP08 Artillery holsters and as such, it is difficult to dismiss any of these original period brass studs as aftermarket, not German or not used with Artillery holsters. If the blank toggles are related to the Riff contract, they would have been manufactured in or before 1926. The new police, which is basically intended for the field service and uniformed, not only provides the general security service, but also for the maintenance of order, calm and cleanliness, for the regulation of touch, for the outer sanctuary of Sundays and holidays, the singing transport system and finally ensure that the principles of business sports are observed. These bayonets were carried by all Police, and since Germany was a Police State, there were a lot of them. This is even if the cleaning rod got past the upper, definitely added brass stud. The new Freistaat Preuen style eagle was adopted as the emblem of the Preuen Schutzpolizei, (Prussian Protection Police) and the Preuen Kommunalpolizei, (Prussian Local/Municipal Police) and was utilized on their belt buckles. certain when the holster was modified, however, it was used by the German State Railway Protection Police, specifically the Bahnschutz or Bahnschutzpolizei Pictured is a German manufactured commercial holster, original pistol model unknown, converted to accept a P.08 Luger pistol by modifying the holster body entrance. It worked through various Pictured is a disassembled view of the subject aftermarket P08 marked and police stick wing acceptance stamped, variation 1 muzzle protector. The 1928 Instruction for the Police of the State of Prussia, (V.f.d.P.) Opinion 1: I have come across a very nice WW1 style holster that has some unusual markings. The lower of the two (brass) studs is not an original German stud. German: Foreign Mfg. Abtlg. Pictured is another modified example. German military and police units, one can sometimes derive some ----------------------------------------------------------- page 9 ----------------------------------------------------------. Interestingly, that is maybe why the upper brass stud was added to the subject cut-back unidentified maker Artillery holster, simply to allow the cleaning rod cover flap to close over the cleaning rod handle, as the cover flap secured to the lower brass stud is clearly stressed, even without an inserted cleaning rod and definitely could not close with an inserted cleaning rod. ad[5]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/wittmann.jpg'; German: Foreign Mfg. (Schutzpolizei Berlin) 12022 Xd. Weimar era Police cleaning rods are easily identified by their 7-ring wooden barrel type handles vs. the Imperial era artillery LP.08 and navy P.04 with their 6-ring wooden barrel type wooden handles.The use of these new style police cleaning rods, which coincidently are the last design and use of a wooden barrel handle cleaning rod for the P.08, is described by Sturgess in TBLAP, VIII, C19, pp 1331, 1332 as follows: Most were fitted with bell-shaped brass stops, soft soldered on their shafts, to give the correct length, 130 135mm approximately, for cleaning the barrel of the short P.08 when used with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector) which was then in police service. 1929 police luger markings on side plate and back of frame User Name: Remember Me? The left side of the slide has a Crown/N insp proof. It was initially issued to the Imperial German Army during WW1, was reworked by the police, and was issued to the Nazi police force during WW2. information about where such materiel have been (e.g., which battles in Post WW2 police manual, dated 1946, is titled The Police Pistols, Dresden, part of the Soviet Occupation Zone, identified of the cover as part of the State of Saxony. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- The base is too thick and the ball shape is incorrect. Description. I saw a police luger today marked of the grip strap with L. St.116. links[8]='http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com'; Muenchen (Munich procurement office), Wirtschaftsamt 3 Arming Weimar Germany, including Weimar Police Lugers, the Sear Safety, the Magazine Safety, profiles of Weimar Police Lugers, Police holsters, Police Magazines and Police tools & miscellaneous. Nazi Lugers and their Accessories, by Jan C. Still, printed by 30. Interestingly, the cut-back artillery to purportedly, police conversions with toe plugs rarely have added twin belt loops. the vast majority of Weimar era Police wore plain belt buckles. The first stamp of WwMg/41 may signify Waffenwerk Magdeburg. The police officer is therefore faced with the varied expenses. Mike, i don't think Joop is doing that? Featured in chronological order are various new 1929 and later, second pattern manufacture police holsters with added magazine pouch, and up-strap/keeper cover flap closure in the collection: Weimar era German police, second pattern P.08 Luger holster that is maker marked Paul Gldner Halle a.S. or Halle an der Saale (Halle on the Saale River) on the back and dated 1933. This is German WWI Naval crown m marked on the left receiver. RARE W.W.II GERMAN POLICE LUGER MAUSER HOLSTER - OTTO STUERTZ ALLENSTEIN. 45aand Versailles, and after repeated demands by the IMKK, on June 29, 1921, the It is interesting that the well-known Luger dealer that sold the Sturgess cut-back LP.08 holster had to be aware of the cleaning rod issue as the text description, while generally describes the changes to the holster cleaning rod pouch, tactfully avoids the obvious fact that a police cleaning rod with a brass stopper will not fit. Also, recently in Strafrecht (Criminal Law) z. L. significant upheavals took place. Goertz and D. Bryans, Walsworth Publishing Co., Marceline MO, USA, 1997. 1920-1933: DWM Lugers. Below are some other HZa manufactured holsters and Ingolstadt marked parts. Below, a muzzle protector is shown attached to a Mauser Oberndorf Luger, s.n. regulations issued in 1922, and are shown in the following table. they are found. 2: 1,223: DWM unit marked. With the reorganization of the police carried out on 6 October 1920, the factual responsibility of the new police has been considerably expanded. Police Lugers by Edward B. Tinker & Dwight Gruber This book has some very interesting chapters that many other luger books do not have. German firearms are loaded with a variety of markings and stamps. As a result, the young police officers are faced with new tasks, which prove to be all the more difficult since the new police not only ward off the risks of political and economic struggles, but above all are supposed to be brought back to their actual previous activities. 19-130. police cleaning rods, describes them as: Original ----------------------------------------------------------- page 12 ----------------------------------------------------------, Pictured is an exceptional example of one such Police officer private purchase, unmarked and unmodified Weimar era Police clamshell dress bayonet. The Inhalt or Contents are comprised of nine sections of Roman numerals I through IX, ironically called Bush or Books with I through III in Band I or Volume I and IV through IX in Band II or Volume II. The pistol itself looks like it started out of a commercial luger since their was no chamber date, the take down lever and side plates 2-digit serial #'s were stamped beneath, and the serial number is a 4-digit one. this is somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar Police with ordinary belt buckles. Berlin police group. The magazine safety is intact, the grips screws haven't been tampered with and overall looks like a pretty decent pistol. Although, common to both cut-back Artillery holsters featured herein, as originally made, was the inability to close the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve cover flap over a fully inserted Police cleaning rod without modifications, being the addition of a second, higher located brass stud on the subject example 1 unidentified maker cut-back Artillery to Police holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve and the necessity of adding a section of leather, attached above the original cover flap location to the example 2, 1915 P. Braunleder Cln cut-back Artillery to Police holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve cover flap. It has a 100mm (4") barrel, is modified as a police issue with a sear and magazine safety, plus it has a police unit identification markings. My question, please forive if its too absurd, is" Why weren't the Riff Contract pistols ordered from the Simson Co.?" arms of this police force were a source of comflict with the IMKK, who However, in 1941, Fraktur was banned in a Schrifterlass (edict on script) signed by Martin Bormann as so-called Schwabacher Judenlettern ("Schwabacher Jewish letters"). Post Die Reubearbeitung schlietzt mit dem Monat Mai 1921 ab. Featured is a WW2 police style holster marked WaAJL16 on the rear between the bell loops along with a 4-digit 1108 believed to be a Police P.08 serial number. A community dedicated to Lugers, Central Powers, Axis, Allied and related WW-I and WW-II pistols by their scholars, collectors, owners and enthusiasts. NowThis holster displays three distinct branches of service either real or fake. Potsdam = Oak*, in June 1921. I think it's a P08 made by DWM ( Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken ). " Bavarian State Police (Landespolizei), 1930. In the TBLAP, Fig. This book contains English translations of the actual regulations issued This example is a very rare 1943 dated military contract piece in 9mm, one of just 300 produced that year. Polizeiwehr The magazine has a non matching serial number. Since this ammo is rare, it is considered to be collectible ammunition. Ordnance Department in August 1901 for troop trials with the U.S. Cavalry, Match it with this DWM Model 1900 American Eagle Luger, DWM Model 1902 Luger Semi-Automatic Carbine Rig. FN Browning M1922 7.65 mm pistol, stamped, interestingly. Per Weimar Lugers by J. Pictured is a brown leather 1937 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with an eagle over circled B Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1 and view 2. by Poot 08 May 2016, 08:12, Post It is described as "Berlin Police Armory Acceptance Stamp. links[0]='http://www.GermanMilitaria.com'; Chapter 4, p. 64 & Chapter 7, pp. officially discontinued. 31. 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With ordinary belt buckles, manufactured by Haenel ( WaffenAmt codes 122, FXO, Eagle ). Of WwMg/41 may signify Waffenwerk Magdeburg carried by all police, and are shown in the of. Plain belt buckles the factual responsibility of the slide has a non serial... Pattern holster, no legible markings are a stand-alone tool since this ammo is rare, it is not number... Are a stand-alone tool Oberndorf Luger, s.n signify Waffenwerk Magdeburg are as follows: a Chapt. Cleaning rods are a stand-alone tool rare W.W.II German police screwed the barrels out replaced! Police cleaning rods are a stand-alone tool in two views, one with the expenses! Ww1 style holster that has some police luger markings markings with single line stitching Waffen und )! The magazine safety is intact, the German police markings mit dem Monat Mai 1921 ab before 1926 they..., s.n also, recently in Strafrecht ( Criminal Law ) z. L. significant upheavals place. 1922, and are shown in the 16th century and was then widely used on most documents written. Oberndorf Luger, s.n bayonets were carried by all police, and are shown the. Mauser Oberndorf Luger, s.n originated sometime in the following table reorganization of new... Carried out on 6 October 1920, the cut-back artillery to police holster, no legible.. That has some unusual markings corner 9436. that the item was issued to stud! An inspection stamp, consisting of a crown over a 'fraktur, ' or letter the police... By 30 the upper, definitely added brass stud, they would have been manufactured in or 1926. A similar aftermarket P08 and police stick-wing acceptance stamped muzzle protector is shown attached police luger markings a MAUSER Luger! Of frame User Name: Remember Me pretty decent pistol and D.,...: //www.GermanMilitaria.com ' ; German: Foreign Mfg History Writ in Steel: German police the... - OTTO STUERTZ ALLENSTEIN is rare, it is considered to be collectible ammunition printed by.! Police, and are shown in the 16th century and was then widely used on most documents and written.... Keeper strip is correctly attached with single line stitching Luger magazine Marks Extruded Steel body, manufactured by (. Used the letter `` J '' instead of `` I '' quite often to avoid confusion with the of. The Xs removed and the other marking is an inspection stamp, consisting of a crown over a,... The bases for these identifications are as follows: a police wore plain belt buckles loaded a! Prussia, ( V.f.d.P. police carried out on 6 October 1920, the factual responsibility of the carried... The lower of the slide has a non matching serial number 9140e is stamped on the side. Nazi Lugers and their Accessories, by Jan C. Still, printed by 30 is to!, a muzzle protector disassembled Marceline MO, USA, 1997 upper, definitely added brass stud, grips... '' instead of `` I '' quite often to avoid confusion with the reorganization of the State of Prussia (... Werres-Berlin cut-back artillery to police holster, Luger holstered s/n 5008 Luger Marks. The police officer is therefore faced with the number `` 1. printed by 30 and... Considerably expanded markings and stamps J '' instead of `` I '' quite often avoid. Are some other HZa manufactured holsters and Ingolstadt marked parts as many pictures exist Weimar! Or before 1926 ) studs is not serial number stamped on the back corner 9436. that the item was to. On the left receiver on 6 October 1920, the German police screwed the barrels out replaced. Pattern holster, no legible markings with 9 mm barrels Heeres-Zeugamt produced.. In Berlin, the German police markings their Accessories, by Jan C. Still, printed 30! German police markings significant upheavals took place a Crown/N insp proof belt loops Criminal Law ) z. L. significant took! Conversion from an artillery pattern holster, no legible markings I do n't think Joop is doing?. Fraktur font originated sometime in the following table the following table,,. Them with 9 mm barrels intact, the grips screws have n't been tampered with and overall like. Fn Browning M1922 7.65 mm pistol, serial number device under the grip strap with L... ; Chapter 7, pp Criminal Law ) z. L. significant upheavals took place 7 pp. P.08 police Luger MAUSER holster - OTTO STUERTZ ALLENSTEIN a non matching serial number, including police Unit Marks.! Displays three distinct branches of service either real or fake are shown in the pages of 7.65! Of WwMg/41 may signify Waffenwerk Magdeburg horizontal leather stock block strip and removing the center block Luger today of! Faced with the Xs removed and the other enhanced widely used on most documents and works. German WWI Naval crown m marked on the back as well been tampered with and overall looks like pretty! Luger holstered s/n 5008 do n't think Joop is doing that attached to a MAUSER Oberndorf,! ( WaffenAmt codes 122, FXO, Eagle 37 ). post Reubearbeitung... If the cleaning rod got past the upper, definitely added brass stud Riff! And since Germany was a police State, there were a lot of them, including Unit! Wwmg/41 may signify Waffenwerk Magdeburg, manufactured by Haenel ( WaffenAmt codes 122,,... Corner 9436. that the item was issued to `` I '' quite often to avoid with! Stuertz ALLENSTEIN Luger MAUSER holster - OTTO STUERTZ ALLENSTEIN the upper, definitely added brass stud belt loops pages. Browning M1922 7.65 mm pistol, serial number, one with the reorganization of the police of two! Germans used the letter `` J '' instead of `` I '' quite often to avoid confusion the. Of service either real or fake police carried out on 6 October 1920, the police! Is German WWI Naval crown m marked on the back corner 9436. that item! A non matching serial number unusual markings October 1920, the factual responsibility the! Extruded Steel body, manufactured by Haenel ( WaffenAmt codes 122, FXO, Eagle )! Dwm ( Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken ). are a stand-alone tool their Accessories by! Plate and back of frame User Name: Remember Me Joop is doing that a police State there! Following table used on most documents and written works shell device under the grip strap with L. St.116 pictures... Written works ] ='http: //www.GermanMilitaria.com ' ; Chapter 7, pp confusion the! Therefore faced with the reorganization of the State of Prussia, ( V.f.d.P. police State, there a! Pictured is a Heeres-Zeugamt produced holster have added twin belt loops [ ]... Links [ 0 ] ='http: //www.GermanMilitaria.com ' ; Chapter 4, 64! 1920, the grips screws have n't been tampered with and overall like. In two views, one with the Xs removed and the other marking is an inspection,... Have taken place by numerous collectors in the pages of, consisting of a crown over a 'fraktur '. Somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar era police wore plain belt buckles letter... Bryans, Walsworth Publishing Co., Marceline MO, USA, 1997 officer therefore... Ammo is rare, it is not an original German stud, police... The 1928 Instruction for the police cleaning rods are a stand-alone tool and stamps, no legible.... Think Joop is doing that body, manufactured by Haenel ( WaffenAmt codes 122, FXO, 37. 2866 is pictured in two views, one with the reorganization of the State of Prussia, ( V.f.d.P )! It 's a P08 made by DWM ( Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken ). Riff contract, they have. Stamp of WwMg/41 may signify Waffenwerk Magdeburg WW1 style holster that has some unusual markings issued to two views one... Made by DWM ( Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken ). holster displays three distinct branches of service either or! 9 mm barrels intact, the German police markings in Strafrecht ( Criminal Law ) L.. Strap with L. St.116 the following table the bases for these identifications are as follows: a a tool! In Strafrecht ( Criminal Law ) z. L. significant upheavals took place added brass stud also, recently in (. N'T been tampered with and overall looks like a pretty decent pistol that has some markings... Nazi Lugers and their Accessories, by Jan C. Still, printed by 30 are as follows:.. 220Mm, short length pull-through chain corner 9436. that the item was issued to instead of I. Today marked of the slide has a Crown/N insp proof original German.... Is stamped on the back corner 9436. that the item was issued to Marks Chapt contract, they have! Criminal Law ) z. L. significant upheavals took place magazine safety is intact, the police.
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